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House Targaryen
Signups are now open for the next mafia game. This game will be set in the excitement and intrigue of the Cold War. Each secret agent will need to use his wits and reflexes to survive. In this game there are no partners. Spying is a lonely occupation with no chance of money or fame...but sometimes you get to kill...and sometimes you get the girl (or boy if that's your thing).

PM House Targaryen to signup. Additional info to follow. Game will begin when we get enough signups.
scrahan
bump
House Targaryen
This game has been delayed until further notice. See this thread on the discussion board for further details.

If you have already signed up for this game, we are in the process of reimbursing your entry fee. tongue.gif

Look for a Minigame signup thread to spring up soon (hopefully). uhoh.gif
unJon
WTF!?!?!?!

You guys are the worst mods ever. rolleyes2.gif

leaving.gif



tongue.gif
scrahan
QUOTE (unJon @ Apr 25 2007, 13.54) *
WTF!?!?!?!

You guys are the worstsexiest mods ever. rolleyes2.gif

leaving.gif
tongue.gif


I've fixed your post.
scrahan
Signups have begun again.
House Targaryen
Bump
House Targaryen
QUOTE (House Targaryen @ May 9 2007, 06.02) *
Bump


:Pokes thread:
House Targaryen
Still waiting on signups whip.gif , but as a special treat (bribe to entice players) we're offering the opening as a teaser.


Romania Wednesday 18:47 GMT

Remy swayed as he entered the apartment casting a brief eye across the room, the bottle of celabratory vodka splashing dully as he dropped it to catch himself on the door frame. Mikhael stood from his chair by the door, and ran his hands down the front and back of his torso, and proceeded to start patting down his legs.

"Is this really necessary?"

"You can never be too careful, and you can not trust anyone," Mikhael, assured that Remy carried no weapons, sat down again and pulled his cap low against his eyes.

"Freedom, finally" Remy thought to himself, "and I will be a part of it, all of us will". He sat at the tired wooden table and cleared his throat, to get the attention of the pair of men slouching there

"The American's tell us that there will be ... there will be train ...a train entering the city.... tomorrow night. On that train will be a... there will be rifles which we'll be del... riles for the rebels...for the freedom fighters in the countryside. It is imp...imperative that this mission succeed. To Zog!"

"Funny, that usually gets them shouting" Trying again, Remy shouted "To Zog"

"Somethings not right, here", Remy felt a trickle of fear sober him as he peered closely at Yatzik. Why wasn't anyone as excited as he was. "Why aren't they moving at all?"

Turning slowly, Remy looked at Mikhael and the gun he was holding, "Wha..What's going on?"

"I told you Remy, you can not trust anyone." Mikhael gave an apologetic shrug. "The Americans are rich but they do not always pay the most, da?"


******

United States Thursday 13:33 GMT

"Tell Groehlmann that if he can't come up wth anything better than TriOX, we'll hand him over to Mossad. Assure him that they won't offer him the same hospitality we do." Allen Dulles slammed the phone down on the reciever only to pick it up as it rang a moment later.

"Yes... this is he...I see. I'll place a call to Baker Street telling them that we need to clean house. Thank you."

Placing the phone down, Dulles bent to open a drawer on his desk, pulling out three folders. Opening two, he scanned a list of names, placing marks besides eighteen.

Picking up the phone again he dialed 12 numbers and waited briefly, for it to be answered.

"Fleet Cleaners? ... Yes, I need a mixed set of suits laundered....some english wool as well .... rush job .... also matching black hats and a pocket handkerchief... Thank you, I'll be hoping to pick these up by the weekend, I'll be having a dinner party, formal attire."

Placing down the phone, he opened the third folder and peered at it briefly, flipping two pages before lifting the phone again and dailing.

"Hello, Mabel. This is Allen, tell Henry that he needs to swap out the center spread on the recent issue with something one of our bright boys came up with. Let him know I'll have it run over to him in the morning."

******

England Thursday 17:45 GMT


Ser Stewart Menzies sat down in the corner chair of the deli just off [Redacted] Street and raised his hand to get the attention of the waiter, then smiled nodded at his dinner companion to continue.

"The American is talking about cleaning his house. They're suggesting, we do the same, our friend over there has sent us a list of rooms..." Menziesr raised his hand to stop him.

"Americans, we teach them to play a game and they think they're the masters of it. Have you seen what they did to rugby? Of course they call it football now, even though they carry it in their hands. Dreadful nonsense. Still it can't be helped. Do you have that list?"

Taking the small paper, Menzies scanned the list, "Hmmm, seems they feel we're a messy bunch; really, let them know we really can't afford to waste time on this nonsense."

"They say that they're noticing a smell; that they may have to complain directly to Managment if it continues".

Sighing, Menzies handed back the sheet, "I guess it really can't be helped. Perhaps it is for the best. Let them know they have our ok. Now, would you like to join me for tea later, my wife is very interested in your recent adventures overseas.

*****

United States Friday 18:53 GMT

Yuri Modin paused briefly and scanned the streets before sitting down on the bench. Picking up the discarded Post, he quickly flipped through to classifieds. Four advertisements had been circled in red; a yard sale scheduled for today, a lonely heart looking for a man with an interest in poetry, a prayer to St. Jude, and an advertisement for exterminators.

Frowning to himself, Modin picked the newspaper up and walked to the payphone on the corner and called the classified department.

"Yes, I'd like to place an add, RE: Lonely Hearts in DC, Your prayers have been answered, quiet, friendly man, smoker, with an interest in the Illiad, would be interested in meeting for drinks... Thank you, I'll mail a check over, could you please guarantee this will be printed in the tomorrow's edition... Thank you again.
House Targaryen
RULES

Section 1
Introduction


1.1
Welcome to the latest installment of A Game Of Thrones Mafia. Even if you've played before, please at least skim these rules.

1.2
If you're new to the game, you might find the following links useful:

A Short Introduction to Mafia
This introduction is primarily aimed at people who have never played the game in any form before, but also contains some information that might be useful for people who have merely not played on this board before.

Flash Introduction To Mafia
Another quick introduction, featuring a short sample game. However, note that the rules used here vary in several key ways from the rules of this game.

The GOT Mafia Discussion Board
For spectators who want to discuss the game away from the players.Everyone playing should have created an account here before the game starts. If you do not have an account here you will not be allowed to play.

1.3
If you would like to play in the game, then send a PM to me indicating your desire to do so.

Section 2
Before The Game


2.1
Everyone who is playing will be sent a PM assigning them an alt and telling them their login name and password just before the game starts. If you think you should have been given an alt but haven't been, please contact the mods. Do not post about it on the thread.

2.2
As soon as you have been given an alt you are an active player. You will continue to be an active player until your character is killed in the game or you are replaced by the mods. If you are replaced, please do not post on the thread any more.

2.3
The alt that you have been assigned should have received a PM listing your role and alignment. Your alignment is your team. Mafia is a team game, and there is no individual winning or losing.

You are either playing for the British and Amereican Intelligence Agents, or for the Russian Deep Cover Agents. If you are playing for the British and Amereican Intelligence Agents, your goal is to uncover all of the Russian Deep Cover Agents before they kill all of you. If you are playing for the Russian Deep Cover Agents your goal is, obviously enough, to not get caught until you have killed all of the British and Amereican Intelligence Agents.

2.4
In addition to your faction you will also have been given a role (this role may of course be 'no role'). Players with any role other than simply Killer or Roleless Innocent may belong to any faction.

Section 3
During The Game


3.1
The game is divided into two phases: day and night. During the day people can vote for people they want to lynch (remove from the game) or vote to go to night without lynching. At night people with roles can perform special actions; in particular the Killers can pick one innocent to target and attempt to kill. Some roles may also have the ability to perform special actions during the day.

Discussion on the thread can continue freely during both phases of the game.

3.2
During the day, people can vote for someone to be lynched or vote to end the day without lynching anyone ('vote to go to night'). You can only have one vote outstanding at any time, but need not have any vote at all. To remove a vote without voting for night, simply 'remove vote'. You cannot ever vote for yourself.

All votes must be in bold to be counted. Please make new votes in new posts, don't just edit old ones; this makes it much easier for the mods to keep track of votes properly.

3.3
As soon as a majority of votes have cast for one decision, the day is over. While the mods will post to officially declare this, the day actually ends as soon as the final vote is cast. Anyone lynched is now dead and cannot post on the thread any more. When the mods post to announce their death they will reveal that player's identity. Votes cannot be withdrawn and new votes cannot be made.

A majority means either more than half the number of people playing (for a conviction) or half or more of this number (for a vote to go to night)

3.4
The day will also end without anyone being lynched if the players cannot reach a consensus within 36 hours.

3.5
During the night, some players will have the ability to perform special actions. To do so, they should PM the mods either before night falls or up to 16 hours after it does so. Note that no player ever has to perform an action, but that to do nothing they should PM the mods stating their desire to carry out 'no action'. Also note that it is acceptable for PMs sent in before night falls to list alternative actions depending on the outcome of the day. If such a PM is sent which does not specify what action to take given the way the day actually ended, the mods will act as if no PM was sent. In this case, it is the player's responsibility to send in a new night action PM.

If not all PMs are received within this time, everyone who has failed to send in a PM will be considered to have taken no action. In addition, those who failed to send in a PM will be warned by the mods or may risk further penalties (up to and including modkilling or replacement).

Because of this, we strongly recommend that players send in provisional night action PMs. Such PMs may be sent in during either the day or the night, and may be changed at any time up until the point they become definite. A provisional PM becomes definite as soon as the mods have received definite PMs from all other players who can perform night actions or as soon as the time limit for the night is reached. Provisional PMs may also be confirmed as definite by the people who sent them in, and in fact the mods urge people to confirm any provisional PMs they send as soon as they are happy with them in the interests of shorter nights.

To be clear: the night can last as long as it does so that everybody who needs to will have time to send in a PM. It does not last this long to give people lots of extra time to think about their choice of night action. Shorter nights make the mods happier.

3.6
PMs to the mod can be changed at any point before the new day is announced, provided there is a legitimate reason for the change. What exactly constitutes a legitimate reason is left to the discretion of the mods.

Note that you do not need to give a reason for changing a provisional PM.

To help the mods, please state the reason you are changing your PM when you send in a new choice.

3.7
Once the mods have received all PMs (or the time limit for night has been reached) they will post a morning scene to inform everyone on the thread of the result of the night's actions. If an action was blocked or prevented for some reason no mention will be made of this fact. There are no hidden clues in the death scenes. All night actions sent in will be considered to have occurred simultaneously. As soon as this post is made the new day will begin and any players who have been killed at night will be dead. The mods will reveal the identity of any dead players. The time limit for the new day will begin with this post.

3.8
The game begins during a day phase and will continue to alternate between phases until the game ends. The game can end during either the day or the night.

Section 4
General Conduct


4.1
By signing up to play, you agree that you will do your best to be involved in the game and will be able to post on the thread as long as you remain an active player. In particular, all players must make at least one post every 48* hours (and PM the mods within 16 hours of night falling if you have a role with night powers). If, during the game, you realise you will have to be inactive for (slightly) longer than the required period please contact the mods privately to let them know. The mods will then post an announcement on the thread so that everyone will be aware of the absence in advance. Intentionally not posting for 48* hours for strategy reasons is an egregious breach of this rule and the spirit of the game.

Anyone who fails to post within the required time and has not informed the mods will be automatically mod-killed. Though the mods will post to announce the death, this will only be as confirmation of an event that has already happened.

*Please note that this 48 hour length applies to mod kills. Many of you have mentioned engagements that may keep you away. However, multiple near modkills will not please your fellow players; and you will have to deal with their wrath as well. Be warned.

4.2
PMs from or to the mods should stay private. Please do not post them on the thread or offer to do so. Please also avoid discussing the timing of your PMs if you are a roled player. That is, while you may post on the thread during the night to say you have sent in your PM, please do not post to tell people that have sent in your PM at a certain time, you have not yet sent in a PM, or that you plan to wait a certain length of time before doing so.

4.3
Discussion of the alts of living players on the thread is frowned upon. In particular we ask that you do not reveal your own alt or attempt to make arguments based on it. Note that this rule does not simply mean you cannot explicitly say who you are on the thread; references to past games that make no attempt to hide your role in them or changes to your alt's signature are also strongly discouraged and the mods may ask you to edit any post in which you are considered to have implicitly revealed your alt in this fashion.

When a player dies, the mods will reveal the alt of that player. Once the mods reveal a player's alt, it is of course fine with us if you discuss it.

4.4
Please try not to use off-thread information such as which players have recently been active, who is currently viewing the thread or anything of the sort as a basis for either your arguments or your actions.
More specifically, do not post any such information on the thread. If you do so we will certainly ask you to edit it out and may take further action.

To be clear: it is perfectly fine to discuss the times at which a player has posted as this information is available on the thread. However, discussing the times at which the player was viewing the thread is not, as this information is not on the thread. We recommend that all players log in anonymously - both when viewing the game thread and when on the discussion board - while the game is ongoing.

4.5
Active players should not discuss any part of the game with each other outside the thread. Active players should also avoid discussing the game with people who aren't playing (other than the mods), and should certainly limit themselves to general comments about the game if they do choose to do so.

4.6
Active players should also not give anyone else access to the their alt. Please do not change the password of your alt account as it is important that the mods know all the passwords in case you need to be replaced. In rare circumstances you may be allowed to have somebody else make a post for you using your alt. However, this can only be done with the consent of the mods, and it is up to them to give the account information to the person standing in for you.

4.7
Please avoid making personal attacks on other players in the thread. If you feel someone else on the thread has said something objectionable, you may contact the mods to register your feelings. However, what exactly constitutes a personal attack is left to the discretion of the mods.

If the mods feel a personal attack has been made, they will ask the player in question to edit the offending posts (and to not make any such comments in future, of course). In exceptional circumstances, or if the behaviour in question continues, they may feel forced to take further action.

4.8
Please remember that this a team game, and that by signing up you agree to do your best to help your faction win. The mods will not be amused if anyone playing decides (for whatever reason) to try to stop their own team from winning. Anyone who does this should expect to be modkilled ... and should not expect to play in any other game the mods run, for that matter.

4.9
In short: please remember that this is a game, and that the aim is to have fun, but not at the expense of other people playing. Any questions about conduct that are not answered here can almost certainly be decided by considering this fact. If you think you shouldn't do something, you probably shouldn't. At the very least, please PM the mods for advice before you do anything you think may be considered questionable by other people playing.

Mafia is run on the honour system and only works as a game if we trust in the good faith of our fellow players.

Section 5
Endgame


5.1
The game is only over when a mod posts in the thread to announce that it is over. Even if you know (or believe you know) the result of the game before then, please do not post in the thread if you are not an active player.

5.2
The mods will declare the game over and a win for one side or the other as soon as one faction achieves its winning conditions, listed below. If for any reason it becomes impossible for either faction to achieve its winning conditions, the mods will declare the game a draw.

The British and Amereican Intelligence Agents win if every one of the killers is killed, and at least one innocent is still alive.

The Russian Deep Cover Agents win once all the British and Amereican Intelligence Agents are dead. (Note that if everybody dies this faction will win.)

5.3
Additionally, the mods reserve the right to end the game at any time before this (as a win for either side, a draw, or any other result they deem appropriate) provided there are exceptional and compelling reasons to do so. In general, the mods will end the game early as soon as one faction's victory becomes inevitable.

5.4
When the game is over, the mods will reveal the alts and roles of everybody who played and also give everyone access to the spectator threads on the other board.

Section 6
Miscellaneous


6.1
Despite the best intentions of the mods, it is possible that these rules contain mistakes, ambiguities or contradictions. If you think you have spotted any, please PM the mods as soon as possible to let them know. If the mods agree that there is a problem with the rules, they will post on the thread to announce this and change the rules accordingly.

6.2
Players are in general encouraged to send in their thoughts to the mods throughout the game, to be posted on the spoiler discussion thread. The mods reserve the right to edit any thoughts they receive before posting them, but will generally post all thoughts unchanged.

6.3
In general, only the mods and active players should post on the game thread during the game. Dead players and spectators should ask the game mods for access to the spoiler forum on the discussion board if they wish to comment on the game. Equally, people posting on the game thread should try to restrict themselves to comments about the game - if they wish to make an out of character comment on the thread they should clearly denote their comment as such by writing it in italics. However such comments should be made very rarely, if at all.

6.4
If something happens in the game that is not covered by these rules, it is up to the mod to decide how to deal with it. The mods' decision on this matter is final. However, the mods will endeavour to have as small an impact on the game as possible, intervening only when they feel it is necessary to keep the game running and not doing so to favour any one side or group of players over another.


These rules have been adapted from the Westeros mafia standard ruleset by the game mod for this game and are copyrighted by the Westeros mafia community at A Song of Ice and Fire discussion board and aGoT mafia discussion board. These rules are not to be copied or adapted for use on another board without permission from the Westeros mafia community, which can be applied for by contacting one of the metamods: Plessiez, unJon or Sophelia.
House Targaryen
ROLES

Innocents

Roleless Innocent
A player with this role has no special knowledge and no special abilities. This is probably why it's the best role in the game. Unsurprisingly, given the name, they are allied with the British and American intelligence faction.

Healer
Each night the healer can PM the name of one player other than themselves to the mods. That player will be healed, and will not die if targetted at night.

Guilty

Killer
There is at least one killer in the game, allied with the Russian faction. If there is more than one active killer, they can not communicate off-thread (and will not know the identity of other killers). Each night, each killer can send in the name of one player they wish to target. Assuming that this player is not somehow protected and that no other role intervenes in any other way, this player will die at the end of the night.

Sympathiser
This role is allied with the assassin faction, and knows the identity of the killers, though the killers do not know of them. If investigated, they will come up innocent.

Questionable Allegiance

Guard
This role may be allied to either the innocent or assassin factions. If they are allied with the assassins, they cannot communicate off-thread with the killers or any other member of the faction, though they will know who the killers are. Each night the guard can PM the name of one player to the mods. That player will be blocked from taking night actions.


****
Ask ad ye shall receive

Alts

House Brax
House Connington
House Farman
House Florent
House Knott
House Pommingham
House Stonetree
House Stackspear
House Stokeworth
House Uller
House Vance
House Wythers
House Yarwyck
House Targaryen
All roles (are/should be) out. If you haven't gotten login info or a role PM.

You may now begin.
House Martel
*Pops up from hidey hole*

leaving.gif
House Ferren
Er.

I foresee a bloodbath. Each killer is allowed to kill each night? I hope there are like 9 good guards, at least.

Mods, can we have a player list? I need to know who I should place a pointless vote on before they show up. tongue.gif
House Ferren
Ok, seriously, where is everyone?

I guess I'll go to the park and feed the ducks in a slightly sinister manner all by myself, then. rolleyes2.gif
House Swift
I'd also like to place an ad, RE: Lonely Hearts in DC, Your prayers have been noted, beware - the quiet, friendly man, smoker, with an interest in the Illiad, would be interested in meeting you for drinks and then killing you.
I'll mail the check to the mods whenever I can be bothered.

/RP
House Estermont
***checks dossier, smiles knowingly, and begins taking notes***
House Seaworth
*Attempts to blend seamlessly into the background*

*Realises that sigil is a bloody great purple unicorn*

*Gives up on trying to hide.*

frown5.gif
House Ferren
Righto then.

Let's assume for a moment that we have two killers. Assuming no successful heals/guards, in the worst case scenario, we have two deaths tonight leading us to 8 vs 2 tomorrow, 5 vs 2 on day 3, and 2 vs 2 (a loss) on day 4. Assuming no successful heals/guards, we should lynch every day. This gives us a 52% chance of randomly hitting a killer in the next 3 days, which isn't bad.

I really don't have any attachment to anyone here, so I'll vote Connington. He should know that smoking kills.
House Penrose
Stupid Spies. Always trying to steal our cereal. Don't they know Trix are for Americans.

I'll go ahead and place a vote for Brax. Defend yourself you Russian scum.
House Seaworth
QUOTE (House Stokeworth @ May 18 2007, 23.42) *
Stupid Spies. Always trying to steal our cereal. Don't they know Trix are for Americans.

I'll go ahead and place a vote for Brax. Defend yourself you Russian scum.


Pah, I'm as American as Freedom Fries. Besides, can't you see Uller over there being relentlessly reasonable? Why aren't you voting for him, huh?
House Penrose
QUOTE (House Brax @ May 18 2007, 23.53) *
Pah, I'm as American as Freedom Fries. Besides, can't you see Uller over there being relentlessly reasonable? Why aren't you voting for him, huh?


His avatar isn't a giant purple unicorn. Actually I'm considering changing to P-long name but they haven't posted yet so I thought I would at least give them a chance to say something before I brought the heat.
House Targaryen
Vote Count

It is day 1.

13 players remain: Brax, Connington, Farman, Florent, Knott, Pommingham, Santagar, Stackspear, Stokeworth, Uller, Vance, Wythers, Yarwyck.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

1 vote for Brax (Stokeworth)
1 vote for Connington (Uller)

11 players have not voted: Brax, Connington, Farman, Florent, Knott, Pommingham, Santagar, Stackspear, Vance, Wythers, Yarwyck.
House Swift
Yes smoking kills Uller but it seems you want to finish that job even faster.

I've been busily scratching away and according to my intensive probability calculations:
1/12*1/12=.00694
there is a .7% chance that if we don't lynch and if there are two killers they will both target each other tonight - thus doing our job for us! Now I may be lazy and I'm certainly no mathematician but I like those odds, so I'm suggesting we go to night.
I won't place my vote yet because I'd like to see what others think and get some feedback but I do feel pretty strongly that this is the direction we should take.

/projections
House Swift
QUOTE (House Stokeworth @ May 18 2007, 22.05) *
His avatar isn't a giant purple unicorn. Actually I'm considering changing to P-long name but they haven't posted yet so I thought I would at least give them a chance to say something before I brought the heat.

Have you ever seen a sheep on heat? If you haven't I'd ask you to retract that statement before anyone gets ideas. If you have, then considering your interests in giant purple unicorns, I feel it may be already too late, and I extend my sympathies to P-long name.
House Ferren
QUOTE (House Connington @ May 19 2007, 02.18) *
Yes smoking kills Uller but it seems you want to finish that job even faster.

I've been busily scratching away and according to my intensive probability calculations:
1/12*1/12=.00694
there is a .7% chance that if we don't lynch and if there are two killers they will both target each other tonight - thus doing our job for us! Now I may be lazy and I'm certainly no mathematician but I like those odds, so I'm suggesting we go to night.
I won't place my vote yet because I'd like to see what others think and get some feedback but I do feel pretty strongly that this is the direction we should take.

/projections


OK Connington.

I see you're voting for me.

At least you're posting, which is more than I can say for at least half the people here.

But...no offense, but here in the Democratic World, we don't do logic like that. (If we don't actually kill a killer today, it increases the odds of them killing each other at night to all of 0.8%. See, isn't that better than 0.7%?)

Although you're actually right, as much as I hate to admit it. If we assume no successful heals or guards, then there's actually a 63% chance we'll kill one of them by day 4. So our chances do improve more significantly than with the "regular" odd-even rule.

Curse your Soviet math! I didn't bother calculating anything until now since normally no one really cares about the odd-even rule, and curses anyone who dares use it, but...it's not going to hurt us even if there is a successful heal/guard/only one death in a night, so long as we don't go to night a second time.

Remove vote. You made me actually think. Damn you, Connington.

Edited: Because there are 13 players, not 12.
House Ferren
Er, just to spell out my thinking for that last one: with a lynch today:

11 vs 2 today

8 vs 2 day 2

5 vs 2 day 3

2 vs 2 day 4 (innocents lose)

with no lynch today:

9 vs 2 day 2

6 vs 2 day 3

3 vs 2 day 4

(innocents lose day 5)

I miscounted the first time around. Since we lose two people rather than one on the first night, it's actually a significant difference in probabilities in catching a killer before endgame (or rather, the chances of us failing to hit a killer in three tries goes from 48% to 36%) rather than the usual minor difference. The only thing that could screw us over is if there are three bad guys, so it's 10 vs 3 today, 7 vs 3 tomorrow, 4 vs 3 the next day if we lynched, or 8 vs 3 on day 2, 5 vs 3 on day 3, leaving us with only two lynches instead of 3 to hit someone.

So then you have to ask yourself: How many bad guys would They put in the setup, to which I have no answer, because some of the mods are crazy and some aren't and I don't know who's controlling the setup. *sigh*

*gives up on metagaming for the night*

I don't even know why I'm bothering with this now, aside from being busy with family stuff for a lot of tomorrow. But only 6/13 people have even checked in, and for all I know, the other 7 could be modkilled before my game projection has any meaning at all. tongue.gif
House Seaworth
Hmm. So there are potential benefits to going to night if we assume that there are two killers. Interesting and given my opinion of the usual day 1 case, strangely compelling. Although I note that the updated rules mention that killers do not know each others' identities, so the mods may have compensated for that by giving the evil faction extra players which at least partially negates the potential benefits for going to night. unsure.gif
House Swift
QUOTE (House Uller @ May 18 2007, 23.57) *
[snip]

So then you have to ask yourself: How many bad guys would They put in the setup, to which I have no answer, because some of the mods are crazy and some aren't and I don't know who's controlling the setup. *sigh*

*gives up on metagaming for the night*

[snip]

I think it's safe to say there aren't three killers as a possible 3 kills per night is just crazy.
I think it's safe to say there isn't one killer as this would be unstable, meaning the game could be over on Day 1.
I think it's safe to say there are two killers.
I think it's safe to say there is a maximum of one more Russian. One one hand 2 kills per night is a remarkable asset to the Russians, but on the other hand because a symp or guard is not in communication with the killers (nor are they with each other) then it is highly possible that they top one of their own. A guard or symp would raise the evil voting block but this is offset by the killers not having a voting block.
There is a good chance of a good role, if only to make the game more interesting. Guard is likely with the doubled possibility of a successful action. The same applies to the healer however. If there are two good roles I would swing back to three evil roles. Meaning 5 roles out of 13. Seems reasonable, though depending on the mods' pet peeves having only 3 roles is a possibility.

In conclusion:
2 killers, 1 evil guard or symp
combination of 2 of guard and healer
8 RI

/role spec
House Swift
Ahem, noone (including the mods whip.gif ) has brought attention to the fact that we have 36 hour days this game. Furthermore for (apparently) humanitarian reasons the modkill limit has been extended to 48 hours. Let this be a warning, harsh* retribution awaits those who slow up this game by deliberate inactivity.

*by harsh I mean occasional contact with cute, furry kittens. You may interpret this as a threat, or not, as you wish.

Remove vote

Brax, potential benefits=unpredictable benefits=potential benefits?
I see Uller understood me, however your stance is worrying, though not suspicious. Any manifestation of an odd-even rule has no place on Day 1. I'd advise you stick to your usual opinion.

Meanwhile Farnham your smug one liner and subsequent disappearance has been noted. Care to share some of those notes?

Vote Farman
House Glover
Good morning, fellow special agents!

Since we're past RP and all that, I'll go straight to business.

I enjoy maths as much as the next guy, but all these projections are based on too many assumptions to be operative. Worst case scenario we loose the game, sure, but there's no point applying the odd/even rule on day one. Your scenario, Uller, doesn't take into account that the killers' goal is to kill all the RI, not to achieve a simple majority. Specially given that the killers' ignore each others' identity. Suppose day 5 in your first scenario, 2 killers and 2 RI. The killers don't know each other. They know that during the night there were two killers and that it's likely that there are still two (there's only one chance in six that your kill got the other killer). It would be a Mexican stand-off of sorts. The killers would both want to go to night (thus revealing each other), but they would know that there is a small chance that voting for night would end the game for them by revealing their killer identity to three innocents. Your scenario doesn't take into account the possible existence of symps and evil guards either (though I do agree more than two killers seems unlikely).

I don't find any of you suspicious yet. Hopefully I will, later at some point.

I will, however, cast a completely random vote on *drum roll* *rolls d12* Well, a 10, that's House Uller. Fateful coincidence?
House Bywater
*walks up to bar and orders a vodka martini, shaken but not stirred* (Gah! Someone had to say it)

Connington, as we all know the baddies always can be seen by the presence of a cute furry white cat, therefore anyone threatening people with kittens must be evil!

There are thirteen players odd/even says we lynch this assumes that there will be only one evil player alive at the end game, and no successful heals/guards and only one kill a night. Therefore as it is likely that there are going to be more than one kill a night, and possible heals/guards then I say we can safely ignore the odd even rule till we are down to 5 or 6 players. (I doubt there will be 3 evil alive at this time)

Role spec, because the rules state the killers do not know each other if there are more than one killer and can not communicate then I am going to assume that the mods wanted to have more than one killer. (I also believe the mods where hoping for at least 16 players) . I am going to assume that we have 2 killers and each can kill each night (we should soon see if this is true)

I also believe we will have a symp role this would help balance the FM as they don’t know each other and can’t communicate however two kills every night is kind of scary for a game this size. If we have 2 killers with two kills and a symp then I would also assume we have a good role. But now I am making this a high rolled game…… so I am not sure about my set up.

Making silly RP - check
Making silly accusation – check (ok I did not vote but I would only have to remove t straight away)
Odd/even - check
Role spec – check
Maths – buggerit, I will leave that to someone more competent
Looking for day one symp clues – I don’t think real symps bother with them on day one any more, and only leads to innocents getting lynched
Making a real vote – to early to make a case, not enough info


Ok well that is my contribution for a while, and I am sorry but I doubt I will be able to post much today. I will do my best to catch up latter, but if you want to lynch me don’t wait for a defence speech – it may be a while in coming.

Ok bring on those kittens!
House Seaworth
QUOTE (House Connington @ May 19 2007, 03.34)
Brax, potential benefits=unpredictable benefits=potential benefits?

Well, unpredictable to a degree, certainly. But assuming the two killer scenario, not lynching today would appear to grant us an extra day at minimum. Any further benefits are caused either by sub optimal play from the evil faction (such as killing an evil aligned target or the same good aligned target) or good role interaction (such as a heal or a guarding) and are hardly concrete, and therefore unpredictable, but I think the extra day is solid enough.

The question which I am now trying to answer is whether I think it is actually worth it. There are definite disadvantages to going to night as well, so I'm still unsure.
House Martel
I think there are enough variables floating around, such as those that Brax mentioned, that we are likely to end up with an extra day in the natural course of the game without trying to manipulate it into being so. Anyway, who's chanting odd/even right now?? Even if I thought this was a good plan, it would not be on Day One where any number of things can happen throughout nights 1, 2 and 3 to upset the effect we were looking for - except for guaranteeing the extra day. But I think holding off until day 3 and seeing whether there has been any role intervention or killers going for same target would be the best time to discuss this sort of scenario as I'm quietly confident it'll happen of it's own accord before then.
House Dayne
I haven't slept yet, and the sun is coming up here, so I'm extremely tired right now. Which means I'm not going to even try to go through much strategy/analysis at this point, except to say that my gut is very strongly against going to night. After I read through the analysis again when I wake up, I might feel differently - but for now, I don't like the idea of skipping the lynch on day one.

Also I agree that we probably have 2 FM. I also expect a Symp or Assassin Guard on the evil side. The good side should have at least one Guard, and perhaps a Healer.

I'll be back later today when I wake up.
House Glover
QUOTE (House Stackspear @ May 19 2007, 13.04) *
Even if I thought this was a good plan, it would not be on Day One where any number of things can happen throughout nights 1, 2 and 3 to upset the effect we were looking for - except for guaranteeing the extra day.


It's not even "the effect we're looking for", it's some bogus worse case scenario which isn't even "worse" because it considers two lone FM without a symp.

The "effect we're looking for" would be something better than "worse case scenario"...

For instance: We go to night on day one, the two killers kill each other, we laugh at the killers and the mods, we win.

Or: We lynch a killer on day one, on night one the killer kills his symp, on day two we lynch the last killer, we win.

Yeah, much wishful thinking, I know. But I'm saying maybe we should work on our suspicions instead of courting the odd/even rule on day one. We have long days, we can use them to our advantage and try to find ourselves a suspect or a scapegoat or something.

Could someone say something suspicious? A symp clue maybe? I think in this game the symp could play a vital role by trying to relate to both his FM and have them realize they're on the same team. We should watch out for this (without giving in to paranoia).
House Martel
QUOTE (House Vance @ May 19 2007, 12.22) *
Yeah, much wishful thinking, I know. But I'm saying maybe we should work on our suspicions instead of courting the odd/even rule on day one. We have long days, we can use them to our advantage and try to find ourselves a suspect or a scapegoat or something.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. So a pressure vote is required, I think, to get some tongues wagging instead of sitting in the shadows.

House Florent
House Seaworth
QUOTE (House Vance @ May 19 2007, 06.22) *
Could someone say something suspicious? A symp clue maybe? I think in this game the symp could play a vital role by trying to relate to both his FM and have them realize they're on the same team. We should watch out for this (without giving in to paranoia).

I was thinking about the likelihood of something like this occuring actually. We have a better than average chance of picking up on any potential signalling this game for the reasons you mentioned. The killers have no idea who their allies are. Any symp clue would need to be reasonably blatant to get both killers on board. But since we have a better chance of catching onto the symp clue, there is a line of thought that suggests the symp would therefore not signal at all, or would wait until symp clues are no longer being looked for. Still, definitely worth keeping an eye out for any clues for the first couple days.
House Glover
Ok, I'm off. I'm afraid I won't be back until Sunday evening (euro), so make do. I'll leave my vote on Uller in case you suddenly decide you want to lynch someone (I have nothing against him except a die roll, but I don't want to leave voteless).

Happy hunting.
House Swift
It's been 10 hours and people are still discussing the odd-even rule on Day 1 uhoh.gif . This is gonna be a long day...

QUOTE
Ok well that is my contribution for a while, and I am sorry but I doubt I will be able to post much today. I will do my best to catch up latter, but if you want to lynch me don't wait for a defence speech - it may be a while in coming.

We've got plenty of time Yarwyck rolleyes2.gif


QUOTE
Connington, as we all know the baddies always can be seen by the presence of a cute furry white cat, therefore anyone threatening people with kittens must be evil!

I reserve the right to disclose or withhold the color or colors of any kittens that may or may not have been mentioned in any previous posts this game or any other pirate.gif


QUOTE
[*snip*]The question which I am now trying to answer is whether I think it is actually worth it. There are definite disadvantages to going to night as well, so I'm still unsure.

Brax, I'll offer a compromise. How about none of us vote for night and if it so happens that we can't agree on a lynch within 36 hours then we can go to night by default. This is one of Stackspear's 'variables' and is suitably lacking in unwanted influences. Also this unpredictableness (unpredictability?) should cancel out some of the other events that may or may not occur rolleyes2.gif . Furthermore, if we can agree on this we can move onto actually looking for Soviet Russian spies.


I won't even mention the pointlessness of your vote Stackspear.


@ Vance and Brax : All hail Zog! wink.gif


Edit: Formatting

House Seaworth
QUOTE (House Connington @ May 19 2007, 07.55) *
Brax, I'll offer a compromise. How about none of us vote for night and if it so happens that we can't agree on a lynch within 36 hours then we can go to night by default. This is one of Stackspear's 'variables' and is suitably lacking in unwanted influences. Also this unpredictableness (unpredictability?) should cancel out some of the other events that may or may not occur rolleyes2.gif . Furthermore, if we can agree on this we can move onto actually looking for Soviet Russian spies.
Good enough. I've come to the conclusion that the difference between the two options isn't all that significant. Certainly not enough to spend too much more time wrangling over, anyway.
House Targaryen
It is day 1.

13 players remain: Brax, Connington, Farman, Florent, Knott, Pommingham, Santagar, Stackspear, Stokeworth, Uller, Vance, Wythers, Yarwyck.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

1 vote for Connington (Uller)
1 vote for Farman (Connington)
1 vote for Uller (Vance)
1 vote for Brax (Stokeworth)
1 vote for Florent (Stackspear)

8 players have not voted: Brax, Farman, Florent, Knott, Pommingham, Santagar, Wythers, Yarwyck.
House Blount
QUOTE (House Yarwyck @ May 19 2007, 10.28) *
*walks up to bar and orders a vodka martini, shaken but not stirred* (Gah! Someone had to say it)

actually its.

Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon-peel.


As for me i'll have triple whiskey neat, and they had best not water it down.
The Pirate
Good morning

Well...I'm bad at maths, but nevertheless, I have a bad feeling about this setup. I guess we can't trust Murphy's law enough to hope that the filthy Russians take out eachother on night 1, so there will be at least 2 nights with 2 kills. As for the number of killers, is it allowed to speculate taking into account the identity of our mods? One of the likes pretty pared-down games, if I remember correctly, and the other two are insane. So anything between 1 and 4 goes. uhoh.gif

Also, no finders. Could somebody who has actually read the rules tell me if there's a coroner?
Only thing we can hope for is a healer and a guard. And hope that they choose wisely in their night actions.
House Blount
oh btw

*walks over to Santagar and shoots him with his Colt police revolver* Sorry about that fellas, he was using my old cover so I knew he had to be bad, he'd have gotten away with it if it wern't for his terrible spelling. *takes a swing of whiskey and goes back to the meeting.*
The Pirate
Now, shall we play a bit of Vodka Martini in front of me?
Are the few people who have stood out so far innocent because they stood out, or guilty and so stodd out to make us think they're innocent because they stood out? idea.gif
House Blount
QUOTE (House Wythers @ May 19 2007, 14.58) *
Now, shall we play a bit of Vodka Martini in front of me?
Are the few people who have stood out so far innocent because they stood out, or guilty and so stodd out to make us think they're innocent because they stood out? idea.gif


We could just send up those who have read the rules. That sounds like Soviet behavior to me. Have you ever seen one of those SMERSH handbooks. *shudder*
The Pirate
Reading the rules is for good little communist lemmings, bravely following papa Stalin and never questioning anything. I, however, am a proud American who makes use of his right to free speech and free reading! It is my right not to read the rules and only jealous little commie creeps would deny it to me! I mean, in my fair country, not even the President has to read the rules.

Edited because I can't read. Which is my good right! Hmpf!
House Blount
I personally wonder whats up with Connington, All this activitity seems a little forced to me.
House Penrose
QUOTE (House Connington @ May 19 2007, 03.11) *
I think it's safe to say there aren't three killers as a possible 3 kills per night is just crazy.
I think it's safe to say there isn't one killer as this would be unstable, meaning the game could be over on Day 1.
I think it's safe to say there are two killers.
I think it's safe to say there is a maximum of one more Russian. One one hand 2 kills per night is a remarkable asset to the Russians, but on the other hand because a symp or guard is not in communication with the killers (nor are they with each other) then it is highly possible that they top one of their own. A guard or symp would raise the evil voting block but this is offset by the killers not having a voting block.
There is a good chance of a good role, if only to make the game more interesting. Guard is likely with the doubled possibility of a successful action. The same applies to the healer however. If there are two good roles I would swing back to three evil roles. Meaning 5 roles out of 13. Seems reasonable, though depending on the mods' pet peeves having only 3 roles is a possibility.

In conclusion:
2 killers, 1 evil guard or symp
combination of 2 of guard and healer
8 RI

/role spec
g

I agree on the distribution, it's really the only one that makes sense. Still we could win just by the killers targeting each other. I so hope that happens. I would laugh my ass off for weeks. It kinda makes it hard to determine a true balance for this game. As evil can lose without us doing anything.
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